Oritsejafor: I Was Elected To Protect People, If I Lose My Voice, They have Lost Theirs
The Guardian Sunday, 07 December 2014 00:00
Written by KENECHUKWU EZEONYEJIAKU
Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor is the President, Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), and the Senior Pastor, World of Life Bible Church. In this interview with KENECHUKWU EZEONYEJIAKU, Oritsejafor poured out his mind about the state of the nation, insecurity in the country and ordeals of Christians in the north.
This nation is being overrun by insurgents. Today, they take over this place, tomorrow they take over that place and installing their regime everywhere. Recently, we heard that there was supposed to be a ceasefire, but later, it didn’t work out. What do you think really happened?
I THINK I am the wrong person to ask this because first of all, I was not part of it; I don’t know anything about any ceasefire. Was there really a ceasefire? I don’t know. You people should ask relevant authorities to explain what they meant by ceasefire because I have no idea.
What I know from what some very devout Muslims have told me and those who know more than me can explain, a few of them have said to me that when a jihad starts, they don’t stop; the jihad has to be completed. They either die or they achieve their goal and the goal is to Islamize Nigeria.
You see, the real war is the war between the ideology of sharia and ideology of democracy. This is the war that is going on and it is a worldwide war. That is what is happening.
You see, in Nigeria, we are ostriches; we put our heads in the sand. The western worlds are doing the same. They think that as long as they are hiding in the sand, problem will vanish; it’s not going anywhere. We have to face reality, the problem is real.
These people, the Boko Haram, the real Boko Haram will not negotiate with anybody. I am telling you this; it is a waste of time, energy and waste of effort. They may end up talking with some people, well, praise God. But the problem is, there are people who are still killing people, who are raising up their flags everyday in different places. So what do you do about that? This is the reality on ground. Let’s stop the deception. Let’s stop the games. What is happening is real. People are being killed on daily basis, their throats are slashed on daily basis. So, what kind of ceasefire or deal? There is nothing like that anywhere. And Shekau himself has been coming out everyday saying he doesn’t know anything about any deal. I will rather be looking at a man who is killing people and destroying things than whatever anybody else is doing that is… what deal is that person going to strike with you that is going to stop this trend going on now?
What then do you think is the solution to this menace?
To me, there are only three or four things that should be done to solve this problem of insurgency in the country. I don’t know if we can ever totally eradicate it, no, but I think that we can contain it, we can reduce it drastically and isolate it. But there are about four or five things to be done. Number one: Christians should not relent in their prayers. Whatever way you look at it, prayer is still essential. There has to be a divine input into what is happening. And I have a feeling that God has helped us as a country, if not, the situation would be worse than what we are looking at today. So I want to beg, I want to plead with every well-meaning Nigerian to pray and pray harder. The Bible says in Luke 18:1, “Men ought always to pray and not to faint.” The word ‘faint’ there means ‘to be discouraged’- ‘men ought always to pray and not to be discouraged’. Jesus said it and He said that because when you are praying and you are not getting answers to what you are praying for, you can be discouraged. But He said, “Don’t be discouraged, keep praying;” the prayer is working. We must not relent, we must continue to pray.
Number two, the military must not also relent; they must buckle up. I found it very difficult to directly criticize them and just pull them down and say they are useless and all that stuff. I am not telling you that I am satisfied with what I see, but I find it difficult to do that and there are many reasons for that. Number one, they are Nigerians like us, the difference is that they went and signed to become soldiers and they carried gun. But they are Nigerians, they are married and they have families. Number two, they are being killed themselves. So, their wives are becoming widows and their children are becoming orphans. And why should I stand here and be saying how useless they… no, no, no, I will never do that. It’s like spectators watching football match and be saying ‘he would have scored; look at him.’ But you are standing out there; go there, get into the field and score the goal. If you are that good, why are you a spectator? If you were that good, you should be on the field and also playing the ball. But you are not there; you are just watching. You know, treat those who are playing that ball with some element of dignity and respect.
Having said that, there is a serious problem in our security system and that problem is a problem of sabotage. I have been crying out about this thing for almost two years now; now, a lot of people are now talking about it. You see, that’s the thing about Nigeria. I think posterity will judge and be able to highlight what some of us have done through the years. By the time people catch up with what we have been saying that they have been criticizing us for, they forget that some of us have been saying it and they just push us aside and act like it’s a new thing.
I have been saying this for almost two years. There is serious sabotage and it has been there. It is just being magnified more and more. It is a deep thing, it is a serious thing; all our security agencies have this problem. There are people who are sympathizers of Boko Haram. Some of them are even literally Boko Harams themselves. They leak information everyday. It has become so bad that even reporters now get stories… I mean, I read some in the papers and I laugh. The other day, I read the one where a plane was supposed to go and bomb insurgents somewhere close to Mubi that would have stopped them from entering Mubi. The plane was getting there, he got a call that he should return to base. I read it in one of your papers. And he returned to base and these people did all they wanted to do, then they said he should go. So, who made that call? Well, I don’t know if they found out who made that call now. They are there. There was also an armored car that was abandoned intentionally; a lot of weapons are intentionally abandoned.
You know, when you people report and say the soldiers ran away, you make it sound too simple. That’s not what really happened, that’s not the way it happens. From the information I have, sometimes, there are some commanders, not all, there are some commanders who will refuse to give the command. Now, by military operation, soldiers cannot attack or respond without a command; they have to be commanded. Now if the man who is to command them is not giving them the command, and it’s obvious that they are going to be killed, what do you expect them to do?
So some of them drop their weapons and run. The picture has to be painted correctly and that is why some of them will run away like that. Then there are some who the thing has been arranged; the people want to leave these weapons to these people, so they are instructed to run and they just run away leaving the weapon. It is not really that they are afraid; it’s not really that they can’t fight, but it’s still this sabotage that is going on within all these formations and different aspects of our security agencies. This is serious, it is very serious. They have to work out the mechanism by which they can fish out these people. They may not be able to fish out all, but to a large extent because the thing is too much now; it is very deep. No matter the equipment you buy, you can buy all the modern equipment, it is getting to a point where the problem is really not that good equipment are not being bought, the problem is that these saboteurs are using these equipment against government, in the sense that they are handing them over to these people. So these crazy people are using these same equipment bought with Nigerian money to kill Nigerians.
So this is an issue that must be looked into seriously and something has to be done urgently, if not, we will just be joking with trying to succeed in this very war. It is a serious situation, vital and has to be addressed urgently.
The third one is also very important. Nigerians, I beg us, let us stop this pretence. It is either that we are totally ignorant, which I will be surprised or we are totally wicked and pretentious. To keep saying that this thing is not religious is an insult to the sensibility of the average Nigerian. It is an insult. When will we agree that this is a religious problem? When Nigeria is wiped out? When these people overrun this whole nation before we will know?
I read in your papers today that a Boko Haram member was walking around in a captured town and preaching to the residents. Are they going around begging for food? They are preaching; preaching what? Don’t we know what they are preaching? They are preaching sharia. Why are we pretending? To be politically correct?
So, the third thing I’m saying: I beg, I love Muslims, there are Muslims that I am good friends and I associate with; I love them, I cannot hate Muslims, why should I? My religion forbids me to do that. But I am begging this people that Muslim clerics, the notable ones from all the denominations of Islam, all the Muslim political leaders, all the Muslim traditional rulers, these three groups should please, for God’s sake, for the sake of Nigeria, for the sake of their own future, their children’s future and that of their children’s children come together. Boko Haram will not listen to me, Boko Haram is an ideology. Please ask these questions- what is Salafi ideology in Islam? What is the Wahabi doctrine in Islam? Are there doctrines like that? Yes, there are, they exist. What are these doctrines? What are the doctrines that these terrorists around the world believe in? The doctrines they are teaching are not coming out of these Wahabi and Salafi doctrines? Boko Haram is basically an ideology. To defeat an ideology, you need a superior ideology.
Many of our Muslim brothers have come and they said to most of us who don’t know much about Islam, they said: “these people are not Muslims.” Alright, you are the Muslims, but what are these people preaching? Is it not from the Koran? Now, you say you have the real thing, this is not the real thing, alright, match the fake thing with the real one. In other words, they must engage these people. There are still Muslim clerics that these people respect till tomorrow. From what I hear, they like discussing the Koran up to Shekau himself and so, they must find ways to engage them. I will never have access to them. They will not even want to hear anything about me because I’m an ‘infidel’. But they will listen to some of these clerics; they must locate them and find ways to engage them, probably, through their Quranic studies and scholars and be able to gradually get to a point where they can discourage some of the things they believe in and gradually get them to become normal or to become sane again. This is not to say I disrespect Islam; no, I don’t, I’m only facing the reality. They need to do this to help all of us. It will help everybody, including me and them.
Number four would be for this same religious clerics to help us go to the grassroots and start convincing the average person on the street that they are Nigerians and Nigeria is a good place to belong to, because certain things are being told to the people. They should start telling them that this is a great country to believe in. They should make them understand that Boko Haram is not fighting for them; they are not fighting for their good. They are the ones that can say these things to those people. And if they gradually do that, a lot of them, even if at the risk of their lives, some even still do it, will give out better information to our security agents. Because, you can’t fight a war and execute it successfully without getting good intelligence from the local people. Some are afraid but my friend, if there is nothing you can die for, then you really have nothing to live for. The reality is, if you don’t give out this information, one day, this same people will kill you. So if you give out the information and they catch you, they will kill you, if you don’t give out the information, one day they will still kill you. Is it not better to give out the information?
So they have to try to convince them, but to make them feel that they are Nigerians. The government will also play their part, but it is not about poverty. They are destroying the entire infrastructure that would help put food on people’s table. So it’s not about poverty. If you buy car for every single person, build houses for all of them, it is not going to solve the problem because it’s a problem of ideology. So they have to bring some reorientation and grassroots work. Government, like I said earlier has a part to play but to me, government’s role is not as strong as the role of religious leaders, traditional leaders and political leaders. They have greater part to play in solving this problem than the government. Government will arm the military, government will do all that but all these groups of people are the ones that need to help us and get to the grassroots and get these people to have a rethink.
Look at, a lot of Almajiri schools have been built everywhere, how many schools have been built for Christians? Do you think a Christian can go to Almajiri School? Are there no Christians in the north? Who is crying out for them, who is speaking out for them? Their own children are roaming the streets.
Are we not aware of what the (nice) governor of Bauchi State did in the Tafawa Balewa, Buguru area, where they are predominantly Christians? How he went and closed down a Girls’ Secondary School of which most of the students are Christians. Now, he took the Muslim Female students, from there he went and put them into other Muslim schools and abandoned all the Christian students. They have nowhere to go till today. This happened two, three years ago. Fine, where are our Human Rights Organisations and Civil Society Groups? Where are they? Is it that they become deaf and dumb intentionally? I wonder! Those girls are roaming the streets and if they want, we can go and show them, they are all over the place. I can go on and on and show you some of all these things.
So, that’s about four things and then our porous borders that need to be properly policed and all that. Those are government issues; they need to look at those. Our borders are porous and they need to look at the people they post to those borders too. Not people who are sympathetic to this madness. You post those same kind of mad people to the borders wearing government uniforms, but yet they are Boko Haram. They will go there and be passing the hoodlums, they carry all their equipment with all the big, big trailers, they say they are carrying food, they are carrying cow, they are carrying this… they are loaded with military equipment that are coming into this country from different directions.
Are you not aware that Libyans have joined them? Are you not aware that Somalians are among them now? Are you not aware that Tunisians are among them from different parts? They are there, among them now fighting among the insurgents. These things are going on and so, our borders have to be properly policed; not only the land borders, but also the air and the sea. What of all the weapons that were found in Lagos? That is the ones they found, where are those weapons today? Iran was indicted, where are those people that were caught? What has happened to them, where are they? What about the ones found in Kano? I was later told that they were all linked to certain Lebanese people based in Kano and Abuja. What has happened to all those people? Have some of those places not reopened in Abuja? What is all these, what are we doing to this country? And we say we want to fight insurgency.
All these problems are there and if you look at them realistically, holistically, genuinely, honestly with integrity, we may wipe out insurgency and probably if nothing else, reduce it to the barest.
Otherwise, are we going the way of Turkey?
It’s unbelievable. You see, Turkey sometime ago was 100 percent Christians (Constantinople). The sultan of the Othoman Empire that was a neighbor to Constantinople was a 19 year old boy. And the Christians were warned of what was going to happen and they said, “no, it can’t happen”. They sent emissaries to him, he received them and they came back and said “ahh! we told you, they are so nice. When the boy turned 21, he invaded Constantinople. Guess who helped him? A Christian. The canon with which he blew down the wall was invented and constructed by a Bulgarian Christian that was even inside Constantinople. He invented this thing, he went to the king of Constantinople to ask for money, and the man said he didn’t have. He sneaked out of town with his invention, went to the sultan and the sultan gave him money; he gave him the equipment and helped to lead the troops to blow down the whole wall. In the meantime, Christians inside had been fighting one other, talking nonsense about nothing. When the saw that the invaders were already inside the town, they held hand and said they were praying. Who’s praying? At that point in time? And they came in straight, and the first place they went to was to the church. And the sultan walked into the church, went to the pulpit and shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’; made some rituals and turned it into a mosque. The next 1000 years, that building was used as a mosque.
When the man that founded the modern day Turkey took over, what he did was to stop the place from being used as a mosque, but he didn’t return it to the church. Instead, he turned it into a museum. So inside that museum, you will see Muslim things and you will see Christian things all there. Do you think if that place was originally a mosque and was changed to a church and they came now and stopped the church, you think they will not change it back to a mosque?
Look at what is happening in Jerusalem. You know, when we talk like this, some people will attack me and say no, no, no… The disputed Al aqsa mosque, was there not something in that place before that mosque? There was a Jewish temple there before that mosque. Why is it that the world never asks questions? If the original thing there was a mosque and the Jews had built a Synagogue or a Temple on top of it, do you think it will stand in the place? They would have blown it off by now. Everybody is talking of the mosque, what about what was there before the mosque? Nobody is asking and nobody is talking.
We talk about western colonization, what about Arab colonization? We never talk about it. We pretend that it doesn’t exist or that it didn’t happen. What happened to Egypt? Is it not the same thing that happened in Turkey? Egypt for over 1000 years was totally Christian. The Arabs invaded in the usual stupidity of Christians, they said it can’t happen. They killed them like rats and what they normally will do, they brought in a lot of Arabs, today, Egypt is known as an Arab country. Were the Pharaohs Arabs? Please let’s be realistic. They were black Africans. Is that what you have there today? What happened to Sudan? Why is it that Sudan split? You have South Sudan and you have Sudan. The whole of Sudan was pure black people. The same thing, they came in from Egypt and raided that place, took it over and killed the men, dashed themselves the women and brought in a lot of Arabs. Within 50 years or thereabout, it became Arab Republic of Islamic Republic… or Muslim something. That’s what happened. Today, everybody sees Sudan as an Arab country, but was it really an Arab country? Is Sudan really an Arab country? Nobody asks questions and it’s not that they don’t know, everybody pretends. You have to be politically correct; you have to be careful, you have to be nice; you have to be somehow, but these things are happening and they have been happening.
These things I’ve said are very hard things and people don’t want people like us to talk; they want us quiet. I can push it further. Go to the north and see the suffering of Christians. Are you aware that generally across the north, it is very, very difficult to find in the far north, a Christian that will rise beyond assistant director in the ministry no matter how qualified, no matter how experienced? You can’t go beyond that. There are courses that northern Christians are not allowed to study at Ahmadu Bello University (ABU), Zaria, or at any of these their universities in the far north because they are Christians. There are military officers in those days, I don’t know how it is today, who cannot get up to generals unless they convert to Islam. These are realities.
There are traditional rulers in some tribes in the north who cannot be traditional rulers except they convert. Go to Gwoza, Gwoza is 80 percent Christian, but they have Emir of Gwoza. Does it make sense to you that a place where 80 percent of the people are Christians, you start an emirate and there is an emir who is a Muslim? Over 80 percent Christians! Look at Mubi that they just took over; there was an Emir of Mubi in a place that is also 80 percent Christian. Can it be the other way round, can you try it? can you go to Sokoto and say, from now, ruling over Sokoto and everywhere is now a Christian traditional ruler. Who can even dream of it?
The only Christian in Bauchi State House of Assembly, a woman, a Christian was thrown out. Why, what did she do? Because the House woke up one day and worked with the governor and decided that the local government headquarters that was where it was supposed to be among these Christians had to be moved to a Muslim enclave. And they just did it, but the woman got up and said no, you can do this; these are my people and they brought me here. And they said she insulted the House. Her tenure is almost over. They took her security, took her car, no salary for almost three years. What has anybody done? When we talk like this, the media will not even carry it. She won the first case, they moved it…all kind of things have happened.
Is President Jonathan too weak to address these imbalances?
Personally, I will say that people’s styles are different. All leaders will not operate the same way. This one will operate this way; this may operate the other way. At least let me start from there. So, don’t rule out that possibility. Also, because personalities and style will be different, you will also discover that there could be a leader who feels that because I am a Christian, so that people will not think that as a Christian, I am favoring Christians will then bend backwards to satisfy the Muslim side so that they will be happy…
Is that what is happening now?
But all I will tell you is that the man is bending backwards to satisfy these our brothers. They are our brothers; he is the president of both Christians and Muslims. Like I said, people’s styles are different.
But the funny thing is that our Muslim brothers are complaining that he is not treating them well. So, you sit back and you wonder; it’s puzzling. How that can be in this circumstances that we are looking at today?
Look at National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA), NEMA which is supposed to take care of refugees and give relief with all these things going on, I think that the Director General of the agency is a Muslim- five out of the six zonal coordinators are Muslims; only one is a Christian.
My people, especially in the north complain everyday that the relief materials don’t get to them. In fact, as we sit here, I am telling you, I had people from all those towns, even from Mubi, they were about five to six of them that were in this office to see me. The pastor among them from Mubi, he was still wearing the cloth with which he ran from the town and they were telling me stories. For example, they told me that in some of these camps where they say they take relief to, they don’t give reliefs to Christians. They told me that there are Muslims who come from their homes to get the reliefs, they carry it and go back home while the people in the camps who are Christians are left to struggle; they are suffering, nothing given to them. When you have five out of six coordinators of the agency as all Muslims, who do you think he will use as state coordinator? It’s a Muslim. So these are the things that are happening
Again you know, Nigerians should bear with me, it will be terrible of me to keep quiet. How do I keep quiet? Genuine Muslims will support me in what I say, good ones who understand the place of oneness. The fact that I am a Christian doesn’t mean I am not a Nigerian, the fact that you are a Muslim doesn’t mean you are not a Nigerian; we are all Nigerians, so let’s be equal, let there be level playing ground for everybody.
So, this what it is and from my own observation, Mr. Jonathan bends backwards to satisfy our brothers, but I think he should look at it very carefully whether the treatment that Christians are receiving is too much.
How would you react to suicide bombers going into schools to kill innocent children?
I was reading in the papers yesterday of a prominent man I don’t want to mention his name. A man I have always respected from Kaduna, an elderly man saying that this whole insurgency is a creation of the government or somebody or whatever just to win election. I just sat down and I said: an educated man, an elderly man talking like this in what we are seeing with our eyes. It’s just unbelievable. It’s puzzling. Is it that these people don’t know the truth? They do know the truth but we just pretend or we just wickedly don’t want to touch the truth. If you try it, then they shout; that’s what some of us are suffering. If I am nice and accept everything, I will be getting and tons of awards left and right and I will be recommended for one thing or the other and they will hail me all over the world - oh, he is a very nice man; while my people are dying. I wasn’t brought up that way. I am not a politician and I will never be. The church, this is my calling.
I became CAN president not because I wanted a title. I was elected to protect people, to speak for them, to be their voice. If I lose my voice, they’ve lost their voice. So, I cannot keep quiet.
Some northern Christians think Christians in the south are not coming to their aid?
We have a serious problem. Most Christians in the south are naïve; they don’t get it. I don’t know whether it is because their uncle has not been killed or that their fathers have not yet died? You know, I went to holocaust museum in Jerusalem, there are many good things there but the thing that interests me most was what a German pastor said. I know that part of his name is Martin but I have forgotten the other name. He said: “When they came for the communists, I said nothing because I was not a communist. When they came for the socialists, I did nothing; I said nothing because I was not a socialist. When they came for the labour unions, I did nothing because I was not in the labour union. When they came for the Jews, I did nothing because I was not a Jew. So, when they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.” That is what is happening to us in the south.
Most of us think that this thing is a joke because it has not yet affected us directly. But the reality is: if we do not support these people and help them, God forbid, the madness we are seeing, these people believe that they can go to any length, they have interest in the south. Their people are already scattered all over the south; they are everywhere waiting to unleash mayhem on southerners. But the reality again is that the average southern Christian does not understand that what is happening in the north is actually happening to them.
So we need to wake up, we need to understand that these people are Christians just like us. Today, nobody is thinking of how to get to a place of worship in some of those places now, but we just had a service here. People have come; we have prayed, we have danced, we have done everything, but they don’t have that luxury right now in the north. Can we guaranty that we are going to have that luxury in the south? It is what we do to help those in need today that hopefully will guaranty the freedom we will have in the south to still serve this God. So it is a terrible thing.
Sometimes, some of the southern Christians see me as a troublemaker. If you know the kind of calls I get. Sometimes, it is even my own people that will be trying to stop me. They will call me and say; “keep quiet and sit down”. I just look at them, your own Christian brother, your own Christian sister. But interestingly, do you know how many Igbos that have lost their lives in the north? South easterners. It’s puzzling to me o! and I don’t still understand why Christians in the south are like this.
So it is difficult to galvanize the forces to get them to rise up, if nothing else, to speak out against these things. Ask these people to stop this that we will not accept it.
That was what Christians in Turkey did; that was what they did in Egypt; that was what they did in Sudan too. Libya was 100 percent Christians too at a time; that’s what they did too. That’s what everybody says. “No, no, it cannot happen”. You know, those of us who are Pentecostals will say: “this is not my portion” (laughs). It’s terrible. We have to wake up.
So, I don’t blame them when they feel that way, when they complain because some of us are like almost left alone.
I gave you about four different suggestions of how it can be tackled, let’s try those things first, including prayers; we should continue with the prayers. But I’m not the one that will just tell you just to be praying. Martin Luther King Jnr. that brought a change in the lives of African-American was not a prayer warrior. He was a reverend quite alright, but he was not a prayer warrior. There are probably some prayer warriors involved, but he went out there and took the bull by the horn.
Even if we don’t have guns and bullets, we have our mouth, we have our brains, and we are intelligent people. Let’s engage the world, let’s engage the international community. When they begin to see Christian leaders stand together, they begin to see southern Christian, political leaders stand together, they begin to see southern Christian traditional rulers stand together, oh my God, the world will come and listen. But if it is only Ayo Oritsejafor standing and talking, and the next moment, 99 percent of those who will criticize him are his own people, we won’t make any headway.
I went to the American Congress, is that not brave enough? And I said to them, to their faces that you are hypocrites. It shook the whole place. I told them: how can you say that Shekau is a terrorist but his organisation, Boko Haram is not a terrorist organisation. It is like saying that Osama bin Laden that you have killed was a terrorist and Al Qaeda is not a terrorist organisation. I said, you are hypocrites and you pretend. You know the truth but you don’t want to face it. Some people labeled me here in Nigeria that I betrayed my country. In fact, I read in the papers when I came home of some of my northern friends who said I should be arrested and charged for treason. But today, where are we? America now says that Boko Haram is a terrorist organisation, Nigeria says they are terrorists, everybody now call them terrorists. Did anybody give me credit for it? No. I received all the bashings.
That is what we face, that is what is happening, that is the problem because we still cannot come together. Sometimes it’s petty… you go to newspapers, abuse and talk of people you don’t even know or had not met before. You just wake up, you read one little thing, somebody gave money to somebody to go and put something in the paper and they put it there, you just read it and you just believe it. You don’t even know this person, you’ve never met him, you write your own out of that one, and then that one will write his own out of that one. And all these people are Christians.
But what did the Bible say? The Bible says: if your brother offends you, go to him. It says if he did not listen to you, take another brother to go with you so that two of you can speak to him. If he will not listen to two of you, take him to the church. If he will not listen to the church, then, you now take him to the world. But is that what we are doing? You don’t even hear from this your brother; you just read something in the paper and you start talking rubbish. It is reducing the strength of the church. It is a luxury the church cannot afford at this time.
So, it is a serious problem we are facing and that is why I am saying, some of the things I have recommended, let’s follow them closely, hopefully, it will help. But this is an additional one, the church needs to come together. In the south, religious leaders need to come together, traditional rulers need to come together and political leaders need to come together and speak with one voice and stop playing games. When political leaders in the south will go somewhere to places in the north and go and lie down flat on the ground and pay homage to people in the north, is that not stupidity? How many of them have come here to pay homage to me? I am the leader of all Christians in Nigeria, have they come here to pay homage to me or do I even have their numbers to call them? Do they even respond if I call them? Something is really wrong with us.